I just think majority of magicians do triumph like its another “reveal” of a selected card. We go through the motions to find the selected card. I seen many just not milk the effect of triumph enough. It’s a very very strong effect, and most of the time people don’t make it feel that way when they perform it.

Actually, Vernon addressed all these questions and concerns in his original presentation for Triumph.

Why have a card selected? Well, you’re not having a card selected for THIS trick; you’re telling about another time you were doing a card trick for someone (what that trick was is irrelevant).

Why find the card? Because that was the triumph of the magician over a seemingly insurmountable obstacle.

Is the effect clearer without the selection? Do you mean, is the righting of the cards clearer without the selection? It depends on how clear the performer makes it.

I’ve always promoted revealing the climax of Triumph in two steps; first, by simply cutting off the top half of the deck to reveal the selection, outjogging the selection, and putting the top half back on it. There’s your Triumph. At least, says your opponent, I left you with a messed-up deck. Then you spread the cards, showing all the others are face down. Double-Triumph. There’s nothing confusing or unclear about it in any way.

Towards your more general question of why have cards selected, yes, I’ve observed that some magicians don’t think about whether it’s a really good idea to have a card selected for certain tricks as opposed to, say, the performer simply throwing one out there. The reason to have a card selected is because what follows will be more meaningful for having done so. If that’s not in play, then why bother?

I think it really depends on what you are trying to reach.
Plot wise a lot of tricks are the same: selection -> lost -> found.
90% of tricks go like that but that also means it’s doing something good.

Thinking of a card is imo a bit more interesting then selecting, losing and finding.
But you could also see that as a selection, because the trick still focus on that card.

Here’s something I’ve been trying to work on: One joker (no selection) to be able to do things with the deck. For an example the joker is thrown in the center of the deck (face up in face down deck) and the deck is seperated from red to black with the joker being the center point of both colors.
Nice discussion here btw, lovely site.

I shan’t expand too much upon the reason for having a selection as others have already begun to clear up the issue. To make a brief statement, there is a clear difference in the minds of the spectators when I perform “X-1=0″ in comparison with a standard triumph.

Here is the appeal of a triumph. Not only do you perform the effect of correcting all the cards, you have such control that you can keep the spectator’s card reversed. You’re performing magic, bringing in the spectator, and reminding him that he’s an important part of the magic by taking the extra time to find his card out of all the others, and making it stand out.

The problem with many effects where NO card is selected is that they are completely passive for the spectator. If it’s just a show with no audience involvement, the spectators might as well watch special effects on TV.

The question shouldn’t be whether or not we should have spectators keep picking cards, it should be how can we make sure the spectators CARE about the effect, and while we’re thinking of a better way, having chosen a card works alright.

1. Easy Ace Estimation (Ace cutting routine)
2. Starship Leader
3. 4 Card to 4 pockets (Jennings)
4. Repro Retro (or any variation of Reset)
5. Bizarre Twist – PH
6. 3 Card Monte

Many of the ideas of my own opinions of having a card selected have already been mentioned but at the same time many of the reasons why we have a card selected is also the very reason we often have a card signed too. =)

I do agree with what your wrote in your second post though.

I think one thing that people might misunderstand from Tony’s original post is that, he isn’t saying having a card chosen is bad, just that you need to be aware of what your are trying to accomplish. And, perhaps, sometimes having a card selected will have an adverse effect on what you want to make happen in the eyes of the spectator.

This is a reason that I don’t like flourishing mixed in with magic. As a showcase for your own personal skill, sure, but if you are trying to perform “magic”, you are giving the spectator too many things to be impressed with, and taking the glory away from the original intended effect.

In the same way, having a card chosen can have this same negative effect.

I guess having them select a card is an half-arsed attempt to make the magic meaningful for the spec. There are far better ways to do this, but having a card selected seems the one of the most popular and direct methods.

With that said, there are far better ways of connecting and getting the attention of the spec.

Like FIRE WALLET. For example.

Hiroki